GSI:
Fixed-Pt Debate
on the
"Days of Creation Controversy"
© Sid Galloway BS, M.Div.
Just an old sheepdog of the Good Shepherd
Genesis 1:1
Communicating conclusions from 100's of PhD scholars
Supporting the authority of His Word
& the consistency of His character
Human Rights? Slavery? - Animal Rights? Cruelty?
What about God's right to command compassion for all of His creatures?
A"debate/dialogue" held in Birmingham, AL, June 15-18, 2011.
- This conference was held in Birmingham, AL, June 15-18, 2011, and billed as a "debate" over the issue of young earth creation vs. old earth creation.
- My purposes for attending this conference were similar to those associated with the Biological Information symposium at Cornell University.
* YES, MY OWN BIAS -
Please note that my own past progression of worldviews was impacted along the way by objective scientific evidence. I was once an old earth evolutionary atheist, then an old earth evolutionary agnostic, then an old earth believer in theistic evolution - pursuing a career in evolutionary animal behavior (ethology). Further evidence convinced me that Christ is who He claimed to be. So, I submitted to Christ and was at that point an old earth, evolutionary Christian. Finally, through the input of a number of world class scientists, particularly Dr. Richard Lumsden (Tulane University biology professor and graduate dept. Dean), more evidence showed me that the "traditional" estimates of the age of the Earth and Universe are based upon unsubstantiated assumptions. New evidences in astrophysics, geophysics, geology, and even biology/genetics support an age for the Earth/Universe of only thousands not billions of years.
(See especially Dr. Hartnett's astrophysics work - Univ. of W. Australia - below on the impact of Einstein's formulas regarding time dilation & the effect of gravity/velocity on time, as the Heavens were "stretched out" expanded. See below Dr. Baumgardner's geophysics work through Los Alamos Labs. See the book GENETIC ENTROPY by Dr. Sanford of Cornell Univ.)
* Now, I'm an evidence-convinced, young-cosmos, biblical creationist.
Debate Participants:
* All were very cordial and respectful to one another *
Dr. Terry Mortenson (Answers in Genesis) Young Earth Creationist
- Terry is trusted friend, humble Christian, theologian, & historian of geology.
(I especially recommend , Origin of Old Earth Geology & Christian Compromise.)
Dr. Hugh Ross (Reasons to Believe) Old Earth Creationist
- I recommend Dr. Jono Sarfati's book: REFUTING COMPROMISE, an excellent refutation of Hugh's' seriously unbiblical and unscientific theories.
- See also Dr. Faulkner's critique of Ross, as well as Dr. Hartnett's books/DVD's.
Dr. Michael Behe (Discovery Institute) Intelligent Design
- Mike is a sincere, honest, and courageous scientist bearing great cost for his scientific challenge to the claims of neo-Darwinian theory.
Dr. John Lennox (Oxford, Prof. Mathematics and Philosophy of Science)
- Dr. Lennox spoke for two hours introducing the debate subject and purpose.
I have great respect for John and have benefited tremendously from his DVD apologetic presentations/debates (with Dawkins, etc). However, I've also been concerned due to his neglect of the explanatory power of the natural reading of Genesis 1-11 to address the issue of "natural evil" (the crucial theodicy issue). John's comments at this Fixed-Pt conference indicate the possible reason for this lack in his apologetic arguments.
John at first seemed to take a noncommittal position on old vs. young earth, but then his erroneous effort to equate the "fixed-earth" controversy of centuries past with the "young-earth" controversy today revealed his bias toward the old earth theory. The two controversies are in many ways qualitatively distinct, due to the didactic, highly structured, historical narrative format of Genesis 1-11in contrast to the isolated passages that were misinterpreted by reformers as implying a geocentric solar system. Even so, John seemed to be genuinely humble and seeking to come to grips with the profoundly simple message of Genesis 1-11. So, I pray that he will thoroughly study the book, COMING TO GRIPS WITH GENESIS, edited by Dr. Mortenson, which includes chapters from numerous experts in areas related to this cornerstone of Christian doctrine (along with other books linked below).
* This is a cornerstone issue that impacts the character of Christ our Creator.
Larry Tautman (Coordinator of Fixed-Point) Old Earth Creationist
- Though Larry was the moderator, his regular input was clearly antagonistic against the young earth worldview, revealing his prior bias. However, Larry seemed to be sincerely seeking new evidence and willing to challenge his own preconceived conclusions, so I pray that he will more thoroughly study the best of young-cosmos authors.
Two Irish Musicians and an Irish Preacher (all excellent regarding their music and commitment to Christ, yet their close relationship to John Lennox also conveyed support for the old earth theories).
BELOW IS THE EVENT DESCRIPTION - FROM THE ORGANIZERS:
"The question of origins is as controversial inside the Church as it is outside of it. There is an intense debate among believers about how to interpret the Creation account of Genesis. This debate raises many practical questions: Does the Creation controversy cause doubts about other aspects of the Christian faith? How should Christians explain the Genesis account to skeptics, who think it doesn't’t agree with modern science?"
".... these questions and many more will be addressed by some of the leading authorities representing the three most prominent views of Creation within the Christian faith: Dr. Hugh Ross (Reasons to Believe) will present the Old Earth Creationist view; Dr. Terry Mortenson (Answers in Genesis) will speak on behalf of Young Earth Creationism; and Dr. Michael Behe (a Fellow of the Discovery Institute) will represent the Intelligent Design - Theistic Evolutionary view.
These men will address questions that all Christians are confronted with: Are the six days of Genesis to be taken literally or metaphorically? Did God use evolution as a vehicle for Creation? Are science and the Bible at odds? How old is the earth?
In addition, John Lennox (Professor of Pure mathematics and the philosophy of science at Oxford University)."
My initial, brief review of the "debate" . . .
The reason I put the word "debate" in quotes above is for two reasons:
1. This event was organized and facilitated by Fixed-Point Foundation, but in many ways it was a "fixed" debate. There was only one YEC (young earth creationist - Dr. Mortenson) vs. 4-5 old earth proponents (see the list above). I'm not saying that it was intentionally fixed, merely that the mix of speakers unwittingly resulted in an imbalance.
2. For all practical purposes, only Dr. Mortenson spent significant time directly addressing (debating) specific beliefs and claims of those on the other side. The other speakers primarily presented a summary of their own views and did not attempt to defend the issues Dr. Mortenson brought up.
Dr. Lennox and "moderator" Tautman initially indicated that the two emphases of this conference were to be:
- loving disagreement among brothers in Christ
- a search for the truth by following the evidence wherever it led
However, the structure and tone seemed more to be an effort to denigrate the young earth view. Plus, there seemed to be a fear among the old earth promoters that the young earth view is embarrassing, since they were already convinced that secular science theories on the age of the earth are infallible. I realize that each of them sincerely believe that their minds are open to new evidence and changed inferences, but their tone and statements indicated they trusted science theory over the plain reading of Scripture. I do not judge their hearts, but rather their words, etc.
For example, while the old earth promoters often mentioned the unreliability of man's interpretation of the biblical evidence, they rarely mentioned the unreliability of man's interpretation of the science evidence. Only Dr. Mortenson and Dr. Behe made it clear that scientific theories are not only fallible, but often religiously held to and defended by the majority, even for years after strong evidence has been shown to contradict those theories. Of greatest concern was Dr. Ross's tendency to far too eagerly and immediately accept the claims of a published scientific papers, especially if they indicated support for his own very convoluted and unorthodox theories.
SUGGESTIONS for a future "Debate"/Conference:
(Yes, from my young-cosmos perspective :-)
* Even though Dr. Mortenson did an excellent job debating Dr. Ross (his most direct opponent) under the fixed conditions, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati, has written a comprehensive, thoroughly researched and documented rebuttal to Dr. Ross entitled: REFUTING COMPROMISE (Updated & Expanded). Therefore it would seem reasonable for FIXED-POINT FOUNDATION to have included Dr. Sarfati to come alongside Dr. Mortenson and balance out the discussion. Not only would it seem reasonable, but it is hard to understand why he was not included, unless perhaps Dr. Ross was unwilling to debate Dr. Sarfati. (See below more specifics on Sarfati's, REFUTING COMPROMISE).
* A more balanced and proper "debate" or at least a truly equitable "dialogue" would be a conference including opposing speakers in each significant area of science/theology related to the subject of Origins.
FOR EXAMPLE:
ASTRONOMY/ASTROPHYSICS
Young Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Dr. John Hartnett, Professor University of Western Australia
- Dr. Russell Humphreys, Sandia National Laboratories (retired)
- Dr. Danny Faulkner, Professor University of South Carolina
- many others, see www.aig.org, www.creation.com, www.icr.org
Old Earth Creationists
- Dr. Hugh Ross (see above)
- Their choice ???
GEOLOGY/GEOPHYSICS (any of the following)
Young Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geology, PhD from Univ. Sydney Australia
- Dr. John Baumgardner, Geophysics, Los Alamos National Labs (retired)
- Dr. Terry Mortenson, AiG, History of Geology
- many others, see www.aig.org, www.creation.com, www.icr.org
Old Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Their choice ???
BIOLOGY/GENETICS/CHEMISTRY/PHYISCS
Young Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Dr. John Sanford, Professor Cornell University (retired)
- Dr. David Menton, Professor Washington Univ. School of Medicine (retired)
- many others, see www.aig.org, www.creation.com, www.icr.org
Old Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Their choice ???
THEOLOGY
Young Earth Creationists
- Dr. John MacArthur, Pres. The Master's Seminary
- Dr. Albert Mohler, Pres. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
- Dr. R.C. Sproul
Old Earth Creationists (any of the following)
- Their choice ???
AS TIME AND GOD ALLOW,
I'll go back through the many pages of notes I took during the presentations and expand this into a more detailed review . . .